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Obama's decision to upgrade the PLO mission in Washington signals that he is willing to consider accepting a Palestinian state formed outside the framework of a peace deal with Israel. That is, he is willing to consider supporting a Palestinian state that will be at war with Israel.
Our World: Lights, Camera, and peace process!
Seeded on Tue Aug 3, 2010 5:45 PM EDT
Article Source: JPost.com- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (23)
Nothing like selling your allies down the river:
Obama’s “stick” against the Palestinians revolves around the intensity of pressure he will place on Israel for the Palestinians’ benefit.
- 5 votes
#1 - Tue Aug 3, 2010 5:47 PM EDTIf the Israel Left and the Obama administration truly want peace, they would be making some demands on the Palestinians. At a minimum they would demand that the Palestinians accept the legitimacy of the Jewish state and reform their anti-Semitic institutions.
thedoctori, do you believe the Arabs will ever honestly accept Israel?
- 4 votes
#2 - Tue Aug 3, 2010 6:17 PM EDTYou mean before hell freezes over? I used to hope for that day. I don't know anymore. There have been rumors that Sunni Arabs wouldn't mind Israel taking out mostly-Shi'ite Iran's nuclear capabilities, though.
- 6 votes
There have been rumors that Sunni Arabs wouldn't mind Israel taking out mostly-Shi'ite Iran's nuclear capabilities, though.
the breakdown in relations between the Sunni Arab staes abnd Iran keeps getting worse. And I think they would be quite happy if Israel did that. A dilemma for them--but ultimately their fear of a nuclear Iran may be even greater than their hatred of the Jews!
Egyptians arrest terror operative trained by Iran's Revolutionary Guard
In possible signal to Iran, Israel sends subs through Suez Canal (of course Egypt cooperated-- meaning that Egypt aided passage of Israeli warships!)
Egypt state daily: Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah tried to overthrow Mubarak
- 3 votes
their fear of a nuclear Iran may be even greater than their hatred of the Jews!
What's that mantra we kept hearing? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?"
- 4 votes
their fear of a nuclear Iran may be even greater than their hatred of the Jews!
What's that mantra we kept hearing? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?"
Well, they may hate the Jews for religious reasons. But the fact is, the Sunni Arab states in the area know darn well that if unprovoked, Israel has no interest in attacking them. But, OTOH, Iran's current rulers might just be nutty enough to do it!
- 3 votes
There terrible truth about "Arab Unity" or "Muslim Unity" are that they do not exist. We're not talking about the petty squabbles between EU members. We're talking about the Saudi Sunnis mistreating their Shi'ite minority; the Saudis being very uncomfortable with a Shi'ite and on-the-way-to-democracy Iraq; we're talking about the Iran-Iraq war; Iraq's invasion of Kuwait; Egypt's Muslim majority mistreating its Coptic minority; an Alowite-minority-led (and "socialist") Syria allied with a Shi'ite Iranian theocracy; Syria allowing terrorists to infiltrate Iraq; Jordan killing thousands of Palestinians in Black September, etc, etc, etc, etc... But it's Israel's fault and sole responsibility to bring stability to this mess?
- 4 votes
#3 - Wed Aug 4, 2010 11:48 AM EDTPerhaps this would be an opportune time for Israel to require
that the Sunni states accept Israel's right to exist .
- 4 votes
Perhaps this would be an opportune time
I wish there were so, but the Arab leadership has become so accustoming to stirring up their own people against Israel, I don't know if it is possible. I think they want it both ways: Israel takes care of Iran, then business as usual (diverting attention away from endemic domestic issues by using the ol' Jewish scapegoat).
- 3 votes
I think they want it both ways: Israel takes care of Iran, then business as usual (diverting attention away from endemic domestic issues by using the ol' Jewish scapegoat).
The only thing I would correct about that statement is that is what the world wants. Seems that no one wants to step up to the job of taking care of Iran, not even the US. So Israel will get stuck with the job, with the only hope that the people of Iran have another revolution, and overthrow the current powers that be. That would be best for all, Israel and the people of Iran.
- 4 votes
This is the way I see it...
Call me a cock eyed optimist.
There was a point in time when no one thought that Israel and Egypt would make peace and yet they did. So we know that it's possible.
Both Obama and Netenyahu need to realistic and flexible in their positions. in their positions. Obama needs to realize that part of the peace process is recognition of Israel, and that you can't deal with a terrorist organization like Hamas. Netenyahu needs to abide by agreements already made to show good faith.
No one wins if this continues. What the world needs to do is stop be involved in trying to arrive at peace instead of assigning blame.
- 5 votes
#4 - Wed Aug 4, 2010 5:28 PM EDTThere was a point in time when no one thought that Israel and Egypt would make peace and yet they did. So we know that it's possible.
true indeed-- up until that point, no one thought any Arab country would ever make peace with Israel.
And since then two others have recognized Israel -- Jordan and Mauritania (although I think the government recently changed in Mauritania, so they might have changed their policies. Of course they are not exactly a "major player" :-).
But Egypt and Jordan are significant!
Unfortunately the other 20 or so Arab countries have not yet done this...hopefully little by little some will.
- 5 votes
No one wins if this continues. What the world needs to do is stop be involved in trying to arrive at peace instead of assigning blame.
Exactly.
And there are two many on both side who stay stuck on that.
The other thing, of course, is the need to realize that the only way to peace is to accept ther fact that neither side will get all its demands met. if they want peace, both sides must be willing to compromise on some issues-- that is key!
- 4 votes
that you can't deal with a terrorist organization like Hamas
Right, except the other half of Palestine (the West Bank) is run by another, corrupt, older (the original) type of terrorists: Fatah aka the PLO aka the Palestinian Authority (PA) -- whatever you want to call it. Its founders, Yasser Arafat and current PA president Abbas, basically invented modern terrorism, and led the Palestinians from one disaster to the next, from Black September to the destruction of Lebanon to the 1st "intifada" to the 2nd "intifada," etc.
I try to stay positive, but it's tough when you realize the Israelis are being coerced into choosing between negotiating with one extremist group or another.
- 4 votes
Fatah aka the PLO aka the Palestinian Authority (PA) -- whatever you want to call it. Its founders, Yasser Arafat and current PA president Abbas, basically invented modern terrorism, and led the Palestinians from one disaster to the next, from Black September to the destruction of Lebanon to the 1st "intifada" to the 2nd "intifada,"
This may be true, but at least he doesn't have a charter that includes the destruction of Israel. There has to be a starting point, and I would say, he would be the best bet. Besides, I bet if someone had said that Sadat would make peace with Israel, no one would have believed it. If peace is to be started somewhere, it's best bet is with Abbas. If that can be achieved, maybe the Palestinians in Gaza might see the benefits of peace, and kick Hamas out. But Netenyahu must learn to pick his battles better, and it seems that life has taken what once was a reasonable man, and made him very hard core.
Hey maybe they could all use a course in Hooponopono. ;-)
- 4 votes
Hey maybe they could all use a course in Hooponopono. ;-)
I could only wish, but in their social context, preoccupation with revenge is the norm.
Abbas was never a reasonable man. He's just good at acting civilized and wearing a suit for the cameras. Watch this video described below:
The media consistently refer to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as a "hard-liner" while at the same time referring to Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas as a "moderate." Yet are these labels accurate descriptions of these two leaders? ...
Ingest what Abbas does day-to-day when the Western cameras aren't around:
The Palestinian Authority (P.A.) has named a new summer camp, in Bethlehem, after terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, who led perhaps the worst terrorist attack against Israel. His squad hijacked a civilian bus, and murdered 37 passengers, including 12 children. ...
The Fatah Party, which Abbas chaired, called Mughrabi’s attack "the most glorified sacrifice action in the history of the Palestinian-Israeli struggle" [Al-Ayyam, July 13, 2008]. “The PA celebrated the 31st anniversary of her killings with an hour-long TV special that opened with the narrator glorifying the attack.” (IMRA, 7/29/10 from Palestinian Media Watch. We cited other examples in earlier articles). ...
I admire your positive outlook.
- 3 votes
The Fatah Party, which Abbas chaired, called Mughrabi’s attack "the most glorified sacrifice action in the history of the Palestinian-Israeli struggle" [Al-Ayyam, July 13, 2008]. “The PA celebrated the 31st anniversary of her killings with an hour-long TV special that opened with the narrator glorifying the attack.” (IMRA, 7/29/10 from Palestinian Media Watch. We cited other examples in earlier articles). ..
Quite a horrible statement and program. I am not blind to the double standard the world treats Israel with. But still, even with that rancid statement, no where does the PA have in a charter the destruction of Israel. So while Abbas might wolf in sheep's clothing, he is the best possible chance to Peace. I would prefer new leadership to come out.... but I don't see it sometime soon
And to be fair, Netenyahu often shakes his head yes and does what he wants to do anyway.He is not a peach of a guy either.
Maybe, what we need are two men who are not these men to encourage peace. These two are battle worn and are not in the least bit interested in making peace.
But that is just IMHO.
- 4 votes
The application of common western political terms to a place as
different as the West Bank is misleading at best .
On a politically relative basis Netanyahu is to the right of the Israeli
center . Using terms like right , left and centrist does not really
apply to Palestinian politics . Really an entire different language is
needed to describe such a place . However , you could say that compared
to Hamas , Abbas is moderate but that description is relative to
Palestinian politics and does not translate to our western standards .
- 4 votes
It continues to amaze me how many naive Israeli apologists there are for terror when they're on front lines. After all, Israel was settled by a bunch of communalists (e.g., kibbutzim) and there's a strong left-wing tradition in the country (Labor was almost the only viable party for years).
- 3 votes
Maybe, what we need are two men who are not these men to encourage peace. These two are battle worn and are not in the least bit interested in making peace.
Maybe I should spend more time meditating on sending positive energy to the Middle East (it does really work).
;-)
- 4 votes
It continues to amaze me how many naive Israeli apologists there are for terror when they're on front lines.
I think we can say the same thing for the U.S. left .
They don't seem to see the big picture of their PC policies .
- 3 votes
Yes, it's so tasty and easy to eat pabulum (dogmatic baby food). Why think for yourself when some zealot does all the thinking for you?
- 3 votes
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