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THEDOCTORI

Articles Posted: 58  Links Seeded: 418
Member Since: 4/2007  Last Seen: 4/12/2012

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Siena Poll: NYers Oppose NYC Mosque

Seeded on Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:51 PM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: Siena College News
new-york, poll, mosque, religion, new-yorkers, 911, ground-zero, public-opinion, september-11, siena-college
Seeded by thedoctori
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By a margin of 61 to 26 percent, New Yorkers oppose the proposal to build the Cordoba House, a multi-story Muslim Cultural Center in lower Manhattan two blocks from the site of the World Trade Center according to a new survey released today from the Siena College Research Institute (SRI).

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  • thedoctori's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Counterterrorism, Global War on Terror, Political Analysis, ReligionOfPeace, rightwingers, Sha'ria Watch
  • Regions: New York
  • Public Discussion (15)
thedoctori

“Large majorities of all New Yorkers, every party, region and age give a thumbs-down to the Cordoba House Mosque being built near the Ground Zero site,” according to Dr. Don Levy, SRI’s Director.

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:52 PM EDT
beej mcl

it takes a constitutional convention to throw out the present day constitution and make a new one. amendments to the constitution require ratification by 75% of the states. a poll regardless of the numbers for and against, cannot take precedent over the constitutional rights of any individual or group. our rights under the constitution belong to all not just for one group who dislikes or disapproves of another.

    #1.1 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:11 PM EDT
    thedoctori

    I see the man spear-heading this whole Ground Zero "effort" as a rank sophist, denying that Hamas is a savage group of murders who kill lots of their own people besides others' civilians. I see him as a sophist for having "been quoted refusing to admit Muslims carried out the [9/11] attacks." That's not just common-place politics; that's apologizing for and/or denying heinous crimes against humanity. (He's on tape.)

    Since when was the U.S. Constitution and American law intransigent and unchanging -- only when it suits some agenda? The Founders knew that they should create a framework that would adapt within limits, but still adapt. People can and should -- if they feel ethically bound -- oppose the building of a mosque ("community center") next to the hallowed ground of the 911 savage attacks. Fights like this happen all the time in the U.S. for various reasons, like over putting Christmas decorations on public land or refusing a church a building permit. Here's some food for thought -- as to why I disagree with absolute literalism:

    http://lawbrain.com/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States:

    ... Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. delivered the opinion. Holmes observed that the constitutionality of all speech depends on the circumstances in which it is spoken. No reasonable interpretation of the First Amendment, Holmes said, protects utterances that have the effect of force. For example, Holmes opined that the Freedom of Speech Clause would not protect a man who falsely shouts fire in a crowded theater. ...

    http://www.salon.com/news/guantanamo/?story=/opinion/greenwald/2010/08/11/khadr:

    ... That Obama has vigorously embraced and at times even exceeded some of Bush's most controversial and radical policies is simply indisputable. I'd request that anyone doubting that just review the very partial list I compiled in Update II yesterday. In that list, I neglected to mention numerous other compelling examples (recall Tim Dickinson's recent revelation that Interior employees call their Department under Ken Salazar's corporate-serving rule "the third Bush term"). Among my most prominent omissions was the Obama administration's Bush-copying use of military commissions rather than real courts to try "War on Terror" detainees. ...

    (Is the above example constitutional or not, eh?)

    http://www.allabouthistory.org/separation-of-church-and-state.htm:

    "Separation of church and state" is a common metaphor that is well recognized. Equally well recognized is the metaphorical meaning of the church staying out of the state's business and the state staying out of the church's business. Because of the very common usage of the "separation of church and state phrase," most people incorrectly think the phrase is in the constitution. The phrase "wall of separation between the church and the state" was originally coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802. His purpose in this letter was to assuage the fears of the Danbury, Connecticut Baptists, and so he told them that this wall had been erected to protect them. The metaphor was used exclusively to keep the state out of the church's business, not to keep the church out of the state's business.

    The constitution states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Both the free exercise clause and the establishment clause place restrictions on the government concerning laws they pass or interfering with religion. No restrictions are placed on religions except perhaps that a religious denomination cannot become the state religion. ...

    • 2 votes
    #1.2 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:37 PM EDT
    backroads

    Those here who support this man cannot be trusted. He -- and they -- use our system against us.

    • 2 votes
    #1.3 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:27 PM EDT
    Reply
    ScienceGuy-356641

    Religious freedoms are not subject to popular vote.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#2 - Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:23 PM EDT
    thedoctori

    And what happened to common decency, respect, and good taste? The sponsor of this "project" has an agenda which I believe completely lacks integrity. In fact, I believe this is a political statement, akin to stamping "we won" on top of Ground Zero, like putting up a Serbian flag next to Srebrenica.

    • 4 votes
    #2.1 - Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:29 PM EDT
    backroads

    And what happened to common decency, respect, and good taste?

    I believe certain Muslims don't subscribe to those notions.

    • 2 votes
    #2.2 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:03 AM EDT
    Solidarity Nite

    Religious freedoms are not subject to popular vote.

    but buildings are!

    • 2 votes
    #2.3 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:13 AM EDT
    thedoctori

    You said it again, and may I repeat your post:

    Solidarity Nite. Thank you for your consummately, pragmatic, finishing off of this seed:

    bs zoning boards can and do disallow buildings of all kinds even religious buildings if they decide to it does not violate their freedom of religion.. you have no rite to any specific spot to slap up your house of worship

    nobody is saying all muslims are terrorist. that is what you are claiming other people are saying but we're not.

    if thousands of people were killed by clowns I would object to a clown school rite near the site. and in no way would that objection mean that I equate clowns with terrorists. it just means that it is HIGHLY INSENSITIVE to slap up a @!$%#ing clown school rite near a site where clowns murdered thousands of innocent people

    As Joe Friday used to say: "Just the facts."

    • 3 votes
    #2.4 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:25 AM EDT
    Solidarity Nite

    :)

    • 3 votes
    #2.5 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:34 AM EDT
    Reply
    Sebbydad

    Well, of course, we should vote to deny this project, I'm on board, as long as there is no other religiously themed project within the same distance from the site. Equating islam with terrorism or Muslims with terrorism means that every Christian is a member of the KKK and/or aryan nation and such an organization and what it represents have no place near that site.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#3 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:35 AM EDT
    thedoctori

    911 was a disaster for all Americans -- E Pluribus Unum. We have a national memorial. Why do we need any one religion's imprimatur stamped on it, especially that of whose radical wing carried the savage attacks? BT (BAD TASTE).

    • 3 votes
    #3.1 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:58 AM EDT
    jfxgillis

    t doc:

    Why do we need any one religion's imprimatur stamped on it ...

    It's not on Ground Zero. Looks like Golf is the religion whose imprimatur will actually be stamped on Ground Zero.

    Have you seen John Daly's wardrobe? THAT'S "bad taste."

    • 3 votes
    #3.2 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:53 AM EDT
    Reply
    trm2008

    Its just the first amendment of the Constitution--no big deal.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:51 AM EDT
    Roy Batty

    At least Mr. Sharif El-Gamal and Soho Properties has a plan and a schedule for this project.

    The problem seems to be that it is a block-and-a-half away from a Huge Gaping Hole that has no plan and no schedule. We can't even build our own symbol of defiance and resiliency, but we can complain about a community center that happens to have a place to worship (a freedom we supposedly hold dear) nearby.

    Bitching and not doing seems to have become the New American Way.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#5 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:16 AM EDT
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